Totally Bogus Allegations
A fountain at the foot Mt. Carmel, Haifa, Israel
Apparently I'm a Zionist because my holy places happen to be in a state that didn't even exist when Baha'is were exiled to Palestine in the 1800's. This is the logic represented by the Iranian government who is saying that the Baha'is who were recently taken into custody in that country were seized not because of their religious beliefs, but because of somehow being a threat to national security. The Baha'i World News Service has it all and Bani Dugal rightfully calls the regime on its totally bogus allegations:
“The charges linking the Bahá’ís to Zionism are a distortion of history: The Bahá’í Faith has its world headquarters in Israel because Bahá’u’lláh was, in the mid-1800s, sent as a prisoner to the Holy Land by two Islamic countries: Ottoman Turkey and Iran.
“The charge that Bahá’ís are Zionists, which has in fact been made against Bahá’ís for the last 30 years by Iran, is nothing more than an effort by the government to stir animosity against Bahá’ís among the Iranian population at large. This is but the most recent iteration in a long history of attempts to foment hatred by casting the Bahá’ís as agents of foreign powers, whether of Russia, the United Kingdom, or the United States—and now Israel—all of which are completely baseless.
“The real issue, as it relates to Bahá’ís, who are committed to nonpartisanship and nonviolence, is the ideology of the government, which has undertaken a well-documented effort to utterly block the development of the Bahá’í community not only through arrests, harassment and imprisonment but also by depriving their youth of education and preventing adults from obtaining a livelihood.
“We would ask whether issues of state security rather than ideology were involved in recent incidents such as the destruction of a Bahá’í cemetery and the use of a bulldozer to crush the bones of a Bahá’í who was interred there; the harassment of hundreds of Bahá’í schoolchildren throughout Iran by teachers and school officials in an effort to make them reject their own religion; or the publication of dozens of defamatory anti-Bahá’í articles in Kayhan and other government-sponsored news media in recent months,” said Ms. Dugal. (Read the whole article here).
Memo to the current regime: You're going to have to come up with something better. The world isn't buying it and even many people in Iran and elsewhere in the region are seeing your actions for what they are, systematic persecution of your citizens solely due to their religious beliefs.
Barney and Bilo as usual have great posts about the latest shenanigans of this played out regime. Read about it here and here. and here.
"Say: Beware, O people of Baha, lest the strong ones of the earth rob you of your strength, or they who rule the world fill you with fear. Put your trust in God, and commit your affairs to His keeping. He, verily, will, through the power of truth, render you victorious, and He, verily, is powerful to do what He willeth, and in His grasp are the reins of omnipotent might."
(Baha'u'llah, quoted in Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 137)
39 comments:
you have to remember that this is history repeating itself...Go back 70 years when Adolf Hitler attained political power in Germany by accusing Jews for Germany's problems and accusing them of conspiring with the rest of the world to defeat it in WWI. Now when we Examine European History we know it was the Kiaser of Germany and other Axis powers who caused their own defeat by being greedy and selfish....
Until the world learns that if it wants peace and security it must not look at fellow humans with suspicion...And set aside these false notions of superiority based upon skin pigmenmtation economic stature or religious beliefs...
Anonymous, yes this does seem like history repeating itself.
Could you help me understand this issue in positive terms? If Bahais aren't Zionists, what *does* the Bahai Faith say about the modern state of Israel and the situation of Palestinians? Are there any Bahai prophecies aobut how the situation will get resolved? Does the Bahai Faith support the two-state solution?
Since the world-wide headquarters of the Bahai Faith are in Israel, I would think that there would be some of understanding between guest and host, no?
Hi Phillipe,
You must be the only Baha'i left who doesn't have Zionist ties. Let me remedy unfortunate wardrobe malfunction with a selection from Wild Ties.
Abdul- Halim V,
I will try to help you understand; I think you've asked a very valid question.
Baha'i scripture doesn't say anything in particular about the "situation of Palestinians". We do believe in unity, however.
As Baha'is we don't participate in partisan politics, so we aren't on one side or the other, as your statements would lead one to believe. I have many Palestinian and Israeli friends and have great respect for all of them. We are, of course, very thankful to the State of Israel for hosting our World Centre but, as I said, we don't take sides.
There aren't any specific prophecies about how this specific situation will be resolved, but there are prophecies about how World Peace will be achieved.
We don't support or condemn the two-state solution; it is not incumbent upon us to do so.
"Since the world-wide headquarters of the Bahai Faith are in Israel, I would think that there would be some of understanding between guest and host, no?"
What kind of understanding are you referring to? If you're referring to any political understanding, the answer is no
Something else which comes to mind... and which makes wonder if something is missing from your description... for some Jews, Zionism is based on Biblical texts which talk about the concept of the Promised Land and the Chosen People. Also, for the so-called Christian Zionists their support for Israel is also based on a prophetic understanding of the role of Jews in the Bible, especially Revelation and Daniel. Now, it is definitely true that some of the theological issues which are invoked in these texts are things which the Bahai texts talk about (like how the various prophecies will be fulfilled and the nature of Covenant) but also (with some caveats) the Bahai Faith generally accepts the Biblical texts as valid. So it is hard for me to believe that the Bahai faith simply has no position. I can understand if it would end up being nuanced and trying to satisfy multiple sides, but I would think that there has to be *something*. Zionism is a form of nationalism. Does the Bahai faith say anything about nationalism? About Jews being the Chosen People? About the Promised Land? Is the Promise still valid?
The Baha'i Faith has no position on any of the politics of the region just like it has no position on the politics of any government nor does it support the various nationalisms that have sprung up during the 20th century. Also, referring to prophecy as the justification of the political aspirations of any group or current geopolitical arrangements is no simple matter. The scope of the Baha'i Faith's view of what is happening in the world does not fit into the confines of the Arab-Israeli conflict even with regard to prophetic expectations regarding the time in which we are living. The point is that what is happening to Baha'is in Iran and other Middle Eastern countries has nothing to do with Israel, this is simply a pretext as Baha'is were being persecuted for their beliefs long before Israel ever existed.
Abdu'l-Halim V. I guess it comes down to what you mean by a position. And yes it would be difficult to categorize. The position of the Baha'i Faith relative to geopolitics is that humanity is one and that the social order, including relationships between and within governments, nations, and peoples should reflect that. Part of that is the establishment of international institutions of governance and a world currency and world language. While this vision of humanity's future may overlap with the aspirations of various nationalisms, it ultimately transcends them.
I believe you are right that Iran is using Zionism as a pretext. But if the Bahai faith is opposed to all nationalisms and Zionism is a nationalism then what;s the logical conclusion? Isn't that a position?
Also, in terms of prophecy I found the sort of passage I had in mind:
From the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá
Moreover, materially as well (as spiritually), the Israelites will all gather in the Holy Land. This is irrefutable prophecy, for the ignominy which Israel has suffered for well-nigh twenty-five hundred years will now be changed into eternal glory, and in the eyes of all, the Jewish people will become glorified to such an extent as to draw the jealousy of its enemies and the envy of its friends.
http://bahai-library.com/file.php5?file=uhj_unity-religions_jews_ishmael&language=
So the Bahai faith isn't totally silent. Although it's position might be hard to categorize.
In terms of "position" I guess I would want to include pretty much any statement from Bahai sources or writings which would have some bearing on Zionism, the policies of the modern state of Israel regarding Jews and Arabs, the Jewish and Arab presence in the region, etc.
Phillipe, I think your last comment is a really good start. And I think that's a much better answer than just saying "Bahais are not Zionists" and leaving it at that.
Abdu'l-Halim V., these are challenging questions that you are presenting and not easy to answer though I appreciate the challenge! I'll have to give this more thought and perhaps explore other sources which could shed light on what you are raising.
My 2 cents....
Response to Abdul Hamin:
As a concerned human-being and in my honest opinion I would rather see a new government set up by some sort of Tribunal and thus the Entire region of Palestine,Lebanon and Israel made into a DMZ and strictly enforced so that no weapons are posessed by anyone!!!
the Committe could be appointed by the UN, the Arab league & NATO
I hope the following will add to the discussion:
1. The "chosen people":
Baha'u'llah speaks of the Founders of the major religions of the world as "Manifestations of God". The word "manifest" means to make known, or to reveal, what was formerly hidden. He states that each time a "Manifestation of God" appears on earth, He reveals God's will for the people at that particular period in history. God chooses a people for his Prophets to appear amidst. These people are chosen, or singled out, not because of inherent worth, but, on the contrary, because those very people are in that time period in a very degraded and powerless condition. Baha'u'llah states that His appearance among such people and the manner in which God transforms them, and enables a formerly backward people to establish a high civilization are proofs of His power.
Thus, the appearance of Moses to the Jews when they were in captivity in Egypt,and their subsequent rise to power, and the appearance of Prophet Muhammad to the Arabian peoples at a time when they were steeped in ignorance. Both He, and later 'Abdu'l-Baha, enumerated in detail the glories of the civilization (science, mathematics, engineering, etc) that subsequent generations of Muslims were able to establish. He states categorically that the emergence of Europe from the Dark Ages was the direct result of the establishment of Islam in Spain.
--Those who choose to follow are chosen in that period of history.
2. Are Baha'is in support of Israel?
Baha'u'llah has stictly enjoined all His followers to be obedient citizens of whatever government of whatever country in which they reside, and to be the well-wishers of the inhabitants of that country. This obedience is regardless of whether, individually or collectively, Baha'is agree or disagree with the policies and practices of that government.
The only act of obedience which He expressly forbids is denial of Faith. This is a new religious teaching, as denial of Faith under extreme duress was permitted by the earlier Founders of their respective religions.
With respect to the Baha'is of Iran, Baha'is have been brutally persecuted in Iran since the inception of this Faith. It was made clear to the early martyrs that all that was necessary for them to do to spare their lives was simply recant, say that Baha'u'llah was a false Prophet. Baha'u'llah also forbid His followers to engage in Holy War.
Currently, because it is now internationally accepted that religious belief is not grounds for a country to deny its citizens rights, let alone arrest and kill them, the continued obedience of the Baha'is of Iran to the very government that harrasses and persecutes them leaves very little for the government to use as grounds to continue this persecution. This is especially true since, unlike some other persecuted groups, the Baha'is, individually and as a group, have not and will not make any attempt to overthow or agitate for overthowing any government.
Therefore, for some time now the government of Iran has resorted to lies which attempt to link the Baha'is to support for the government of Israel, since these two governments are currently enemies, and because this has been intertwined with religious animosity.
At the present juncture in history, treason is accepted internationally as a reason to imprison and execute people, while religious persecution is not.
3. As for the meaning of a "position".
A prophecy of things to come is not the same as a position, I think. Like many prophecies in the Baha'i Faith, the comments of 'Abdu'l-Baha, which have in large measure come to pass, about Israel and the Jewish people seemed quite unlikely, even incredible, at the time they were made. Baha'is throughout the history of the Baha'i Faith--including during the war that followed the creation of this state in 1948-- have remained completely nuetral. The state of Israel has been established without either the help or the opposition of the Baha'is.
Baha'u'llah wrote that in this Day he has eliminated the need for all conflict and contention.
Viewed in the current context of religous, racial and national conflict and opposition, this new paradigm is difficult to understand, I think. Baha'u'llah's vision and the stystem he outlines enables people worldwide to wholeheartedly support the legitimate rights and identity of one's nation, religion, race, ethnic group WITHOUT being against any other nation or group. Unless and until this is understood and established, Baha'u'llah wrote, there will continue to be war, and injustice, and all of the attendant upheavels and ills people and nations suffer worldwide.
If Baha'u'llah's system, and the aims and actions of the Baha'i world community, are examined with a fair and open mind, only those who desire contention for the sake of contention, or for their own economic or political domination, would object to living in a world free of strife, injustice, contention, and loyalties which pit one human being against another.
Judith W.
I just wanted to say that even though you suggested that "holy war" has been abolished by the Bahai Faith, there actually are Bahai texts which talk about something called "righteous warfare" which is hard to distinguish.
Furthermore, the Babis (the predecessors of the Bahais) actually did use arms to try to violently overthrow the Iranian government. I'm not saying that justifies the persecution of the Bahais today. But there is a certain amount of complexity to the issue.
Anonymous, there is no "holy war" in the Baha'i Faith, it may be that what you are referring to is similar to a "just war" concept as there is in Christianity. Holy war involves the use of violence to defend or to spread one's religion. Neither of these things is sanctioned in Baha'i teaching. However, the use of force as part of collective security is. These things are completely different. Also the Babi's use of force had nothing to do with attempting to overthrow the Iranian government but simply to defend their own lives while under attack. At that stage the law of holy war had not been revoked by Baha'u'llah and as such their actions were not in contradiction to a standard that had not yet been set in the Faith.
Judith, thanks for your comments. I think I agree with you that prophecy isn't *automatically* equivalent to a political position. But they also aren't unrelated. For example Pastor Hagee who has been in the news recently for his connection to McCain is a Christian Zionist. And the Christian Zionist position is based pretty strongly on Biblical prophecy.
In fact, some of the statements in the writings I'm discovering on "my own" searching on the internet are actually similar to some of the ideas that got McCain to disavoew Hagee. (e.g. The Holocaust and the Greater Plan of God)
http://bahai-library.com/index.php5?file=compilation_holocaust_greater_plan.html
I haven't noticed a particular historical fact mentioned that is very significant. Perhaps it has been overlooked because its so well known.
As Judith said, the current Iranian government is primarily relying upon claims of Zionism to support establishing evidence of treason or sedition in their imprisonment of Baha'is. This claim to Zionism is almost exclusively based upon the fact that the Baha'i World Centre is located in Israel. The reason the Baha'i World Centre is in Israel is not because of any particular Baha'i political ideology or theological argument of manifest destiny. For arguments sake let us give the benefit of the doubt to those who would wish to argue so. Even if there were political or ideological issues identified as potential motivations, it was not planned or initiated by the Baha'is. The fact is that it was a historical event imposed upon them.
The great historical irony is that it was the Iranian (Persian) government who are responsible for having exiled and imprisoned Baha'u'llah in Palestine. The current Iranian leaders now continue to persecute his followers based on that forgotten irony.
There are so many Iranian Baha'is around the world who have been forbidden education at home, but have become incredibly educated abroad and would love to use their gifts and have the opportunity serve the people and government of their homeland so that Iran might itself become a beacon of light to the rest of the world. That kind of loyalty, commanded by Baha'u'llah, the ultimate turning of the other cheek, is what is on offer to the current government. Someday they will have the courage to trust that love and watch a miracle unfold.
Chris
So basically it seems like we have the following:
- To the extent that nationalism is criticized in the Bahai faith and Zionism is an example of nationalism, then Zionism is "not ok".
- Bahais accept the existence of the state of Israel and prohibit its citizens from disobeying its laws (or the laws of any government).
- The Bahai faith echoes the prophecies which are also invoked by Christian Zionists that the Jews will gather in large numbers in Israel and good things will happen to them there.
- In terms of the issue of "taking sides" there is also the challenging passage which seems to comment on the future of Jews and Muslims:
slam, at once the progenitor and persecutor of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, is, if we read aright the signs of the times, only beginning to sustain the impact of this invincible and triumphant Faith. We need only recall the nineteen hundred years of abject misery and dispersion which they, who only for the short space of three years persecuted the Son of God, have had to endure, and are still enduring. We may well ask ourselves, with mingled feelings of dread and awe, how severe must be the tribulations of those who, during no less than fifty years, have, "at every moment tormented with a fresh torment" Him Who is the Father, and who have, in addition, made His Herald--Himself a Manifestation of God--to quaff, in such tragic circumstances, the cup of martyrdom.
(28 March 1941, written by Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá'ís of the World, published in The Promised Day Is Come (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1980), pp. 99-100) [3]
Another more complicated statement which is a bit more reminiscent of Hagee and Christian Zionism:
When you [the Jewish people] glorify and honor the memory of Christ, rest assured that the Christians will take your hands in real fellowship. All difficulty, hesitancy and restraint will vanish. Consider the troubles and persecutions heaped upon you in Russia for your fanaticism of unbelief. And you must not think that this is ended.
This humiliation will continue forever. The time may come when in Europe itself they will arise against the Jews. But your declaration that Christ was the Word of God will end all such trouble. My advice is that in order to become honorable, protected and secure among the nations of the world, in order that the Christians may love and safeguard the Israelitish people, you should be willing to announce your belief in Christ, the Word of God. This is a complete statement; there is nothing more. Is it not thoughtless, ignorant prejudice which restrains you from doing so? Declare that, verily, the Word of God was realized in Him, and all will be right.
(The Promulgation of Universal Peace: Talks Delivered by 'Abdu'l-Bahá during His Visit to the United States and Canada in 1912 rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1982), p. 414)
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Abdul-Halim v,
You seem to be drawing conclusions and extrapolating elements which aren't there: that there's a Prophecy that bears upon a migratory fact is one thing, what governments DO with this is another, and that is where we Baha'is don't get involved. As our Holy Writings corroborate the Bible's claims by confirming its validity (as does the Qur'an), it would be normal to think that we believe in that prophecy. I don't see why you take issue with that. In addition, the passage you cited makes no reference to Israel belonging to the Jews. As to your claim about "nationalism", I would submit that even in a Baha'i context whereby we would be adopting a "world-embracing vision", there will still be Chinese, Russians, Israelis, etc. It's about unity in diversity. Plus, who knows, maybe God wants the Jews to return to Israel so that they realize they don't want to live there anymore and leave? I don't see this is as nationalism, as this would require blind devotion to one's country and the belief in its superiority. I don't see any of this in the passages you've cited, or made implicit or explicit reference to.
"Bahais accept the existence of the state of Israel and prohibit its citizens from disobeying its laws (or the laws of any government)." We don't accept or refute the existence of Israel or any nation, it's a fact independent of our belief or disbelief.
"The Bahai faith echoes the prophecies which are also invoked by Christian Zionists that the Jews will gather in large numbers in Israel and good things will happen to them there." We also believe in the Prophecy that World Peace will be established; does that make us political? And about the passage on the future of Jews and Muslims, I don't really grasp what you were trying to say.
By the way, I commend your independent investigation of truth, this topic obviously interests you.
Masud, I don't know what you mean by "take issue". The only "position" I'm taking is that the Bahai Faith isn't totally absolutely silent about Zionism. If you were Buddhist or Taoist and said "We have nothing to say about Zionism" that would be one thing. But there are statements in the writings about nationalism in general, the Jews in particular, specifically regarding their presence in Palestine and their role in history.
I'm not saying that Bahais are simply pro-Zionist or simply anti-Zionist. But there are statements in the writings which have a bearing on Zionism.
I'm still finding quotes and passages on different pages but I'm sure there are clearer examples out there.
In terms of your other points: 1) I would say "yes" if you have a particular vision of how world peace will come into existence then that makes you political. 2) I would say that the existence of a nation isn't just a mere fact (just ask a Tibetan)
Abdul-Halim V, nobody is saying that the Baha'i Faith is absolutely silent about Zionism, but is rejecting the wild accusations made by the Iranian government the same as saying the Baha'i Faith is "silent about Zionism"? We're rejecting the charges in the context that they're put forth; the Iranian government isn't saying "Baha'is are Zionists because your Writings make reference to the return of Jews to Israel" (in fact I doubt any member of the Iranian government has done a tenth of the research you've done about the Faith) they're saying we're Zionists because of our "ties to Israel"; you conceded the point about them using this as an excuse ealier. "But there are statements in the writings which have a bearing on Zionism". Yes Abdul, you're right, there are. There are also Writings which have a bearing on the USA and the Most Great Peace, the Indigenous Peoples all around the world, amongst others. With all due respect, I really don't understand your point of contention. "if you have a particular vision of how world peace will come into existence then that makes you political" Well it depends on what definition of "political" you're referring to; I think you're referring to the following definition: "the authoritative allocation of values" in this sense, we are "political" because we do believe in an Administrative Order based on spiritual values, but we aren't political in a partisan way; i.e. we don't take sides.
"I would say that the existence of a nation isn't just a mere fact (just ask a Tibetan)" I didn't say it was a MERE fact, nor did I imply that; I meant it exists independently of what we believe; if you were making the point that geography can be used as a political tool for power-hungry entities, you're absolutely right. I think this following passage is most representative of our beliefs:
On July 9, 1947, Shoghi Effendi received a letter from the chairman of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine requesting a statement on the relationship, which the Bahá'í Faith has to Palestine and the Bahá'í attitude toward any future changes in the status of the country. From Shoghi Effendi's reply, the following paragraphs are quoted in The Bahá'í World, Volume 11 (1946-1950), pp.43-44.1
"The position of the Bahá'ís in this country is in a certain measure unique: Whereas Jerusalem is the spiritual center of Christendom it is not the administrative center of either the Church of Rome or any other Christian denomination. Likewise although it is regarded as the second most sacred shrine of Islam, the most Holy site of the Muhammadan Faith, and the center of its pilgrimages, are to be found in Arabia, not in Palestine. The Jews alone offer somewhat of a parallel to the attachment which the Bahá'ís have for this country, inasmuch as Jerusalem holds the remains of their Holy Temple and was the seat of both the religious and political institutions associated with their past history. But even their case differs in one respect from that of the Bahá'ís for it is in the soil of Palestine that the three central Figures of our Religion are buried and it is not only the center of Bahá'í' pilgrimages from all over the world but also the permanent seat of out Administrative Order, of which I have the honor to be the Head."
"The Bahá'í Faith is entirely nonpolitical and we neither take sides in the present tragic dispute going on over the future of the Holy Land and its people nor have we any statement to make or advice to give as to what the nature of the political future of this country should be. Our aim is the establishment of universal peace in this world and our desire to see justice prevail in every domain of human society, including the domain of politics. As many of the adherents of our Faith are of both Jewish and Moslem extraction, we have no prejudice towards either of these groups and are most anxious to reconcile them for their mutual good and for the good of the country."
"What does concern us, however, in any decisions made affecting the future of Palestine, is that the fact be recognized by whoever exercises sovereignty over Haifa and Acre, that within this area exits the spiritual and administrative world center of a world Faith, and that the independence of that Faith, its right to manage its affairs from this source, the right of Bahá'ís from any and every country of the globe to visit it as pilgrims (enjoying the same privilege in this respect as Jews, Moslems and Christians do in regard to visiting Jerusalem), be acknowledged and permanently safeguarded." From http://www.bic-un.bahai.org/47-0702.htm
I simply want to thank Abdul-Halim for his wonderful questions. They have made all the more clear to me the ways in which the Baha'i International Community is explicitly removed from the political chaos that rules the planet today.
To take such a stand is not easy. I see now that it requires both a great deal of skill and finesse in dealing with others, as well as the unity of an absolute purity of intent with a frank understanding of the spiritual, social, and political forces that are constantly shaping society. I think that in the passages shared by Abdul-Halim deal most directly with the later, while that shared by Masud show us the former.
I would simply like to add the following words of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá:
I must, therefore, give you my instructions and exhortations today, and these are none other than the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh.
You must manifest complete love and affection toward all mankind. Do not exalt yourselves above others, but consider all as your equals, recognizing them as the servants of one God. Know that God is compassionate toward all; therefore, love all from the depths of your hearts, prefer all religionists before yourselves, be filled with love for every race, and be kind toward the people of all nationalities. Never speak disparagingly of others, but praise without distinction. Pollute not your tongues by speaking evil of another. Recognize your enemies as friends, and consider those who wish you evil as the wishers of good. You must not see evil as evil and then compromise with your opinion, for to treat in a smooth, kindly way one whom you consider evil or an enemy is hypocrisy, and this is not worthy or allowable. You must consider your enemies as your friends, look upon your evil-wishers as your well-wishers and treat them accordingly. Act in such a way that your heart may be free from hatred. Let not your heart be offended with anyone. If some one commits an error and wrong toward you, you must instantly forgive him. Do not complain of others. Refrain from reprimanding them, and if you wish to give admonition or advice, let it be offered in such a way that it will not burden the bearer. Turn all your thoughts toward bringing joy to hearts. Beware! Beware! lest ye offend any heart. Assist the world of humanity as much as possible. Be the source of consolation to every sad one, assist every weak one, be helpful to every indigent one, care for every sick one, be the cause of glorification to every lowly one, and shelter those who are overshadowed by fear.
In brief, let each one of you be as a lamp shining forth with the light of the virtues of the world of humanity. Be trustworthy, sincere, affectionate and replete with chastity. Be illumined, be spiritual, be divine, be glorious, be quickened of God, be a Bahá’í.
I find it interesting that a critic of the Bahai Faith is using another critic of the Bahai faith to invent statements supposedly attributed to the Guardian of the Bahai Faith...
This person would make an excellent Corporate Lawyer in the United States....
Jalal,
First of all, I appreciate the compliment and I agree completely, Abdul Halim obviously grasps today's burning issues and is positively engaging in this dialogue. It's great that we have this "media equalizer" (the internet) as a communication gateway, but it's even greater that there are open-minded people like Abdul Halim who are willing to have a civilized, fruitful and informed discussion. Secondly, 'Abdu'l-Bahá's parting words in the passage from "The Promulgation of Universal Peace" captured the moment beautifully. It was a great selection.
Anonymous, which statements are you claiming were "invented" and "supposedly attributed to the Guardian"?
Some more background in terms of the Zionism issue is the following:
in the beginning of the cycle of Bahá’u’lláh this divine promise, as is clearly stated in all the Books of the Prophets, has begun to be manifest. You can see that form all the parts of the world tribes of Jews are coming to the Holy Land; they live in villages and lands which they make their own, and day by day they are increasing to such an extent, that all Palestine will become their home.—Some Answered Questions, p. 75–76.
And actually the Bahai Faith also has a series of harsh words regarding the fate of Muslims in these times which I think also add to the picture.
The World Order of Bahaullah has a section titled "Collapse of Islam"
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-48.html.iso8859-1?query=turkish&action=highlight#pg174
The general point seems to be the idea that Muslims as a group are being punished for persecuting the Bab and Bahaullah. But then some specific aspects which might be a bit more relevant to the Zionism question are the use of phrases like "the Holy Land’s liberation from Turkish yoke" or again "the liberation of Palestine enshrining within its bosom the cities of ‘Akká and Haifa, the world center of an emancipated Faith"
or even more full of Shadenfreude (joy from other's misfortunes) you have passages describing "the extinction of the Caliphate; the disestablishment of the State Religion; the annulment of the Sharí’ah Law and the promulgation of a universal Civil Code; the suppression of various orders, beliefs, traditions and ceremonials believed to be inextricably interwoven with the fabric of the Muslim Faith—these followed with an ease and swiftness that no man had dared envisage. [...] every follower of the persecuted Faith of Bahá’u’lláh recognized evidences of the directing Hand of the departed Founder of his religion, Who, from the invisible Realm, was unloosing a flood of ***well-deserved*** calamities upon a rebellious religion and nation." (emphasis mine)
Abdul Halim,
I think you've mischaracterized the passage. I don't think it's Schadenfreude. I don't know how else to explain this except that when iniquitous acts are committed, punishment ensues. That's the way kids are brought up and it's also the way God educates us. By the way, most of the people that suffered from the fall of the House of Uthman, the extinction of the Caliphate, the disestablishment of the State Religion, etc. were (at least according to my limited understanding of history) power-hungry clerics. However, He does say "well-deserved" and I do see how one can see that as harsh; but again, it's about conditioning: reward and punishment. And I don't think He is happy about those calamities, He is just pointing out that those calamities were well-deserved. He would be happy if they learned from that. (it is not incumbent upon me to judge whether or not they have learned) Please re-read the passage I cited from the Guardian; you keep on citing passages that speak of the past and Prophecies, while I cited a passage about what our attitude and position should be as Baha'is ; that passage, I think, is the answer to your original questions: "what *does* the Bahai Faith say about the modern state of Israel and the situation of Palestinians? Are there any Bahai prophecies aobut how the situation will get resolved? Does the Bahai Faith support the two-state solution?"
Masud,
I think the passage you shared is definitely a piece of the puzzle but so are the passages I've been finding. I think your passage shows that in some formal sense the Bahai faith will attempt to not take a position in the Israel-Palestine. But the passages I've been finding show (pretty clearly I think) that in terms of a Bahai understanding of history and events, all of Palestine will become a home for the Jewish people. That for Bahais, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (which resulted in the "liberation" of Palestine from Muslim hands) was a "well-deserved" consequence of Muslims persecuting the Bab and Bahaullah.
Another aspect of this which occured to me a while back... in the US there are some activist groups which (as was done in the case of South Africa under apartheid) are trying to encourage universities, corporations and other entities to diverst from Israel. I know a few churches have already made a commitment to divest.
But what I realized is that this is a question that the Bahai Faith actually can't be "neutral" about because the headquarters in Haifa is necessarily contributing to and supporting the Israeli economy.
Nice to see that this has generated so much discussion. Ultimately though the Baha'i Faith has no position on the politics of the various factions in the Middle East. It is the same position that the Baha'i Faith has towards such issues all over the world. This is the official position that you will hear from any Baha'i institution and as such is the only accurate one. People of course are free to have whatever opinions they want about that. The attitude towards Baha'is in Iran and other countries in the Middle East has nothing to do with Israel which is the real point of this post. The whole Zionist thing is simply an excuse and a highly illogical one at that.
Those who want to continue this discussion, I'll leave you to it.
Peace.
"...the Bahai Faith actually can't be "neutral" about because the headquarters in Haifa is necessarily contributing to and supporting the Israeli economy." So what you're essentially saying is that Baha'is shouldn't be allowed to have their World Center anywhere because it would affect their neutrality? But what if history would have taken a different course and Haifa were in Palestine? Would you have been saying the same thing? No, I think you probably would have been saying "It's great that the Baha'is are supporting the Palestinian economy".
"in terms of a Bahai understanding of history and events, all of Palestine will become a home for the Jewish people..."
Well, Abdul-Halim, this can mean what you want it to mean; can't a home be shared for example? wouldn't it make more sense if it were, in light of the spirit of the the Baha'i Writings, centered around Unity in Diversity? And anyways, this is a Prophecy, HOW we get to that point is not through modern day politics, which is why we don't participate in them, because even if spiritual, virtuous people try to change the world without changing the system, it will backfire.
In terms of your second answer I think you are actually right in the sense that it is conceivable that a home will be shared. But I still haven't found anything which makes that interpretation seem plausible. For example, I've found some other sections which talk about the descendants of Abraham and the Holy Land but they tend to also mention things which specify Jews and not Arabs.
In terms of the first point, I would disagree with your paraphrase of what I said. All I'm "essentially" saying is that 1) There are several groups or organizations who object to the policies of the state of Israel and have decided to promote divestment from Israel as a way to address those concerns.
2) This is a particular course of action which would be difficult or impossible for the Bahai Faith to take. And so you can't really say "we have no position on divestment" for instance.
Abdul-Halim,
About the possibility of a shared home, you said, "But I still haven't found anything which makes that interpretation seem plausible".
But you didn't answer or make explicit or implicit reference to my claim that in light of the Baha'i teachings, specifically concerning unity in diversity, this interpretation would seem likely.
"I've found some other sections which talk about the descendants of Abraham and the Holy Land but they tend to also mention things which specify Jews and not Arabs."
I know we've been discussing this for a long time and you've made an effort and cited many passages, but I am not able to respond to that unless I know exactly what you're referring to, so I would ask that you cite the passage from which you've extrapolated that assertion.
I'm sorry that I misrepresented your statement; however, I would submit that you're basing your comments on a false premise: "objecting" to Israel's policies and "promoting divestment" are actions that are intrinsically erroneous in the Baha'i Faith, because of our non-involvement in partisan politics. It is for THIS reason that "this is a particular course of action which would be difficult or impossible for the Bahai Faith to take". And then you go on to say, "And so you can't really say 'we have no position on divestment' for instance."
First of all, I think we can say that, especially considering the passage I cited from the Guardian. Additionally, Abdul-Halim, it's because we don't believe in the current political system. The word "position", moreover, is loaded with elements of that power-oriented mindset. So we CAN say that we don't have a "position". As we've discussed, we do have prophecies and historical references made to certain issues, but that is not akin to having a political position on the issue, is it?
Masud,
In terms of your last point about prophecies and political positions, I agree that they aren't identical but they are "akin". And as I've mentioned before, people like Pastor Hagee and the rest of the Christian Zionist movement is probably a perfect example of how a particular understanding of Biblical prophecy (some aspects of which are echoed in Bahai texts) can definitely fuel certain political positions.
In terms of divestment I'm not sure what you are objecting to. If you are saying "promoting divestment" is "intrinsically erroneous in the Bahai Faith" that is "fine" but it seem that, even in a small way, that is a departure from absolute neutrality. (Especially, if the Faith is financially *invested*)
As far as your first question goes,
in the document: "The Holocaust and the Greater Plan of God" from the UHJ there are a number of different quotes which seem to have some bearing in the discussion.
For example, one passage which I've mentioned before says: "the Jewish people will become glorified to such an extent as to draw the jealousy of its enemies and the envy of its friends."
That certainly doesn't immediately suggest the image of Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine as a common home.
Neither does the already-mentioned idea of the Jews finally being forgiven for persecuting Jesus wihle the Muslims are starting to be punished for persecuting the Bab and Bahaullah.
Here's another summary from Shoghi Effendi of the Bahai position which (I think) reflects a bit more of the nuance and complexity of the Bahai position.
Our Bahá'í attitude towards the Jewish question and Palestine is not difficult to define: first we have the prophecy of the Master in "Some Answered Questions"; how much that entails we cannot be sure of; all we can say is that God has forgiven the Jews in this Dispensation and that they will return to their homeland. We must not go further than this.
Second, we must discuss their problem with sympathy, but dispassionately; we are not concerned with, and must--for the protection of the Faith--keep out of, political controversies; all we can say is that the Jews, like every other minority in the world, are entitled to help, consideration, and justice. We must be broad in our approach to all such extremely heated controversies, and while giving our Bahá'í point of view, not take sides.
Needless to say we profoundly sympathize with the Jews, and deplore with all our hearts the cruel treatment they have received.
(26 July 1946, written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer) [5]
Abdul Halim,
(I inserted the capitalization)
"people like Pastor Hagee and the rest of the Christian Zionist movement is probably a perfect example of how a particular understanding of Biblical prophecy (some aspects of which are echoed in Bahai texts) CAN definitely fuel certain political positions."
You put your finger on the button when you used the word "can"; because that doesn't mean they SHOULD and in my understanding they HAVEN'T in the Baha'i Faith; this relates to what I said before: what we DO with those Prophecies can become dangerously political; therein lies the difference. That's why Prophecies and political positions don't HAVE to be akin, unless one makes them so.
Concerning your point about divestment, it wouldn't matter which country we were "invested" in; our neutrality wouldn't change. No doubt, we are grateful to Israel for being our host, but that doesn't mean we have an inescapable bias. Nevertheless, would you mind qualifying what you mean by "invested"? You do know that the money going to the construction, maintenance, etc. of the World Centre in Haifa comes, in its entirety, from Baha'is all around the world, right?
"'the Jewish people will become glorified to such an extent as to draw the jealousy of its enemies and the envy of its friends.'
That certainly doesn't immediately suggest the image of Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine as a common home."
With all due respect, I think that was a non-sequitur; that friends and foes will be envious and jealous of its accomplishments has no bearing on whether they can live together. So either that was a fallacious correlation or you missed a step (or I failed to see it).
"Neither does the already-mentioned idea of the Jews finally being forgiven for persecuting Jesus wihle the Muslims are starting to be punished for persecuting the Bab and Bahaullah."
Well, if you want to view it in that context, (i.e. "finally being forgiven") I could say that the Jews were "already punished" for persecuting Jesus with the Holocaust. (I'm not saying that, I'm just trying to reason in the context you've made your argument in) In this case, it does come down to reward and punishment. Is it this premise that you object to?
"[...]reflects a bit more of the nuance and complexity of the Baha'i position."
You are right to say that the Baha'i "position" is complex. But there are two reasons why I think it's complex: first of all, there are two competing mindsets; on the one hand we have the current political system, which is based on the acquisition and preservation of power and on the other we have the Baha'i system, which is based on consultation and dedication to the Cause. Secondly, there is a dual process of construction and demolition going on simultaneously; we are trying to construct the foundations for a Baha'i system and we can clearly see that the current system is crumbling down.
Thus, I think it becomes clear that the complexity of our "position" is due to this imminent paradigm shift, and not contradiction (which I think you implicitly suggested)
Masud, I feel like I've largely satisfied the curiosity I felt at the beginning of the thread. And now we seem to be arguing about whether the glass is half-empty or half-full but not really on substantial matters. I also feel that I've mostly said my peace.
Abdul-Halim,
I guess you're right, we have been turning in circles. For me the substantial matter is that the Iranian regime is fabricating evidence to denigrate the Baha'is and what comes next could be quite scary. I think we do agree on this point.
I hope I've helped you satisfy your curiosity.
Anyway, thank you for the discussion; it was very lively and I enjoyed it. All the best.
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